Does Laycount Matter?

If you’ve spent enough time in the pickup community, you’ve probably heard the term laycount tossed around. If not, I can guarantee you’ve thought about the idea, even if you don’t know the term. Basically, laycount is just the number of women you’ve had sex with in your lifetime. Within the pickup community there’s a lot of debate about how much it matters. Some pickup coaches use their (often inflated) laycounts as proof of their qualifications. Others say laycount is a completely irrelevant metric. My thoughts are somewhere in the middle, as I’ll explain.

First, let’s explain one very important caveat. Actually, this caveat is one of the reasons some guys use to argue that laycount doesn’t matter. The quality of women you’ve slept with matters a lot. For example, if Tom, an average looking dude with an average job and average game were to do enough approaches and spend enough time on the dating apps over a long enough period of time, he could probably achieve a reasonably high laycount. Most of these girls would be average to below average in terms of their looks and social status, but he could still get a decently high laycount. On the other hand, this same guy could probably not get with one Ivy League-educated model, much less multiple Ivy League-educated models. So who has better game – Tom, the guy who’s slept with 50 unremarkable, overweight girls or Andy, the guy who’s slept with 3 models with great social skills and elite educations? I’d say it’s almost definitely Andy. His laycount might be a fraction of the Tom’s, but getting even one of the girls he slept with required him to bring far higher value to the table and/or have far superior game.

But for the sake of simplicity, let’s put this aside for the moment. Most of us reading this blog are hoping to date women of higher quality than the ones Tom sleeps with. And let’s be honest, most of us aren’t going to be dating supermodels. So let’s say your goal is to regularly get with girls in the 7-8 range, with an occasional 6 and hopefully 9’s if you’re really on your game. In that case, I think it’s much easier to talk about laycount.

When Does it Actually Matter?

So here’s what I think about laycount – it matters until it doesn’t matter. Let me explain further. Most guys who’ve only slept with a very small number of women (roughly 5 or less) don’t have much experience with dating and seduction. Maybe they lost their virginity to a girlfriend in high school and then dated a couple different girls throughout college. These relationships were probably always exclusive and typically resulted from existing friendships. The problem with having a laycount this low is that guys in this position tend to be emotionally immature when it comes to sex and dating. For example, when my laycount was ~5 or lower, my tendency was to immediately fall in love with every attractive girl I slept with. Even when the signs were clearly there that she was only interested in casual sex, I couldn’t help myself from falling head over heels. This would inevitably lead to heartbreak when things didn’t go as I hoped.

So if your main goal is to be emotionally mature when it comes to sex and dating, my recommendation is to get your laycount to at least 5 and preferably to 10. This shouldn’t be hard to do, especially for guys who care enough about their dating lives to visit blogs like this one. At that point, I think you’ll be much better able to approach dating more rationally and keep your emotions in control.

Now, let’s say you actually want to get good at seduction. Maybe you love the thrill of sleeping with new girls. Maybe you want the confidence that you’ll never go too long without sex when you want it. In that case, I’d suggest shooting for a slightly higher number. It’s going to be different for everyone, but I’d put it at 25 different girls. At that point, you’ll have slept with enough women to be confident in your abilities. You’ll have a bit of a routine down in terms of how and when to use kino, how to optimize logistics, and what to do when you get back to your apartment. You’ll have seen last minute resistance (LMR) enough times that you won’t let it phase you if you have to wait until the second or third date for sex.

Ok so what if just getting good at seduction isn’t enough. What if you want bragging rights, whether among your friends or just to yourself? Well I’d argue that the laycount to earn bragging rights isn’t actually that much higher than the one you’d need to get good at seduction. This is obviously different for everyone, but I’d put it around 30-35. Why so low? Well, here’s the secret.

Seduction is a skill. And the skill level between a guy who’s slept with 2 women and a guy who’s slept with 30 women is vastly different. If the guy with a laycount of 2 doesn’t make an effort to get better with women, there’s a chance he’ll struggle in this area any time he’s not in a relationship. But what about the difference in skill level between a guy who’s slept with 30 women and a guy who’s slept with 100? The guy with the laycount of 100 will probably be better, of course. He’s learned a thing or two over the course of those extra 70 lays. But here’s the key difference. The guy with 30 lays could pretty easily get to 100 if he has the desire. He already has a formula figured out – he just needs to repeat it enough times. But the guy with 2 lays would have a very hard time getting to 30 unless he really worked on his weaknesses, whether those were related to his physique, personality, or game. Most guys who have a laycount of 25+ probably have the skill to get to 100+, but most don’t have the desire. Maybe they lose their desire as they get older or eventually meet a girl they want to date exclusively. And that’s probably a good thing actually. It means a guy has gotten what he needed from seduction, whether that was a relationship or just the thrill of having sex with lots of different women.

So what’s the short version? If you want to be more emotionally stable in your dating life, aim for a laycount of 10. If you want to get reasonably good at seduction, aim for a laycount of 25. And if you want some bragging rights, go for 35. Beyond that, have as much fun as you want to. You’ve already developed your seduction skills enough that your desire, rather than your skills, are your only limit to getting the number as high as you want.

Leave a Reply